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Gazeboist's avatar

> I want men to become feminists. I get why they don’t, though. Because almost every time I engage with feminist media, the thinking part of me has to convince the feeling part of me that I’m safe.

> This post is a long reflection on why that is, and what to do about it; on how to build a feminism that actually feels like it’s for men too, instead of just telling them so.

I get this desire. I really do. I don't share it though.

I want something that's either a little more, or a little different, and I'm not really sure which. I want a separate movement, that does its thing for men the way that feminism does its thing for women, and I want those two movements to be comfortably allied to each other. Obviously feminists can be their feminist selves while at times doing things that help me with my issues; I think if they can't, feminism has already failed. But I also don't think that feminism, the movement as a whole, can be itself while prioritizing my problems, or even putting those problems on the same level as the problems that women face. Because those problems, the ones that feminism exists to address, are real and serious and require dedicated work to fix. But they're also incomplete, as a list of problems facing humanity as a whole.

I want us to get to a place where we see that these aren't mutually exclusive. It's ok to pick particular problems and specialize in them - more than ok, it's our (nonexclusive, see also ants et al) superpower as a species; we've kind of started to understand that. I wish we could get a little further, and start to be ok with other people picking other problems to work on.

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Nels's avatar

I feel weird about men calling themselves feminists. I think we can be pro-feminist, but an identity-driven movement should belong to the identity. Liberals become the worst version of themselves when they start trying to advocate too hard for groups they don't belong to. Isn't it supposed to be bad if we start pushing a "white savior narrative"? I could easily see them one day attacking men for having a white knight narrative or something. And I don't think it's a coincidence that minorities started drifting away from Democrats at the same moment that Democrats were maximizing advocacy for minorities. I don't want to reinstate patriarchy or anything, I just think that if we are feminists then we are participating members in the movement, so we should be allowed to have opinions about it...aaaaand now we are being accused of mansplaining. No thanks.

I like competition, it encourages us to improve ourselves. But obviously if I don't win I will feel somewhat bad about it. If I become consumed by that feeling I could blame the competition itself for creating that feeling and leave, but then I give up the chance to have fun and improve myself. You can enjoy the competition and become healthier if you learn to accept that you won't always win and see every failure as a chance to improve. In the same way, it isn't the fault of society or the patriarchy that society places expectations on us. It's just an inevitable result of living in a community. The expectations may change, but we will always have some kind of hierarchy and like people more if they are beautiful or funny or rich or manly or feminine or what have you. I think it is a really bad idea to tell people that someone else is responsible for your feelings. In that world, your happiness will always depend on the whims of strangers. I think this overlaps with subjects Haidt brings up in The Coddling Of The American Mind, though it had nothing to do with gender. My wife says that watching ads for jeans makes her feel fat. I don't think we can ban jean advertisements and everything else like it, people just have to learn to deal with these feelings in a way that's healthy.

Men and women both crave things from each other that are not only unrealistic, they will make us less happy if we get what we think we want. Men keep wanting younger women (probably for obvious reproductive reasons), but studies show that the larger the age gap in a relationship, the more unhappy the marriage will be over time. Women want men with high testosterone but also hate being in relationships with them for obvious reasons. Our desires are so rooted in outdated biological constructs, I think it's a bit pointless to spend too much time worrying or self-flagellating ourselves about it. Men can't be perfect. Women can't be perfect. Maybe by accepting the flaws in our own gender (again, without despair) we can better accept the flaws in each other.

I also just think that every toxic trait can be virtuous in moderation. Men should be tough, so should women. Men and women should both try to restrain their feelings, otherwise we end up burdening our fellow humans which causes them pain. It only becomes toxic when we take it too far and mock every hint of weakness. But we will never live in a world where everyone agrees on the exact line between where virtue ends and toxicity begins.

Still, I liked reading your perspective. Very thought provoking.

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